Korsfæstelse eller Pælfæstelse,Sandhed eller Løgn?

Sanhed eller Løgn? Kender du sanheden kender du også løgnen.
Se for dig selv og bedøm selv. Dette er mit svar.
Disse "verdslige" kilder, taler deres eget tydelige sprog uden fortolkninger eller forstyrrende sniksnak.
The Jewish Antiquities are a kind of world history, and Flavius
Josephus' view is biblical. In the past, God used the Egyptians,
Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians and Greeks to punish or to
rescue His chosen people; now it was the Roman's turn to punish
them. This was something the Greeks and Romans of his age could
understand all too well. In almost every case, you can read
'Fortune' or 'Destiny' or 'Fate' instead of 'God'; on the other hand,
when Flavius Josephus uses one of these common pagan
expressions, he must have had the Jewish God in mind.
One of the most remarkable passages in the Jewish Antiquities is
the so-called 'Testimonium Flavianum':
At this time there appeared Jesus, a wise man, if
indeed one should call him a man. For he was a doer
of startling deeds, a teacher of the people who
receive the truth with pleasure. And he gained a
following both among many Jews and among many of
Greek origin. He was the Messiah. And when Pilate,
because of an accusation made by the leading men
among us, condemned him to the cross, those who
had loved him previously did not cease to do so. For
he appeared to them on the third day, living again, just
as the divine prophets had spoken of these and
countless other wondrous things about him. And up
until this very day the tribe of Christians, named after
him, has not died out.
[Jewish Antiquities, 18.63-64]
It is unlikely that a pious Jew like Flavius Josephus would have
written that Jesus 'appeared to them on the third day, living again';
consequently, there has been a lot of scholarly debate about the
explanation of this strange remark. Some argued that we had to
admit that Flavius Josephus had become a Christian; others
maintained that it was made up by some Byzantine monk who
copied the Jewish Antiquities. The latter explanation can be ruled
out because a more or less identical text had been found in an
Arabian translation of a part of the Jewish Antiquities. In 1991,
John Meier has suggested that Josephus did in fact mention Jesus,
but that the text was glossed by a Christian author. His
reconstruction of the text is as follows:
At this time there appeared Jesus, a wise man. For he
was a doer of startling deeds, a teacher of the people
who receive the truth with pleasure. And he gained a
following both among many Jews and among many of
Greek origin. And when Pilate, because of an
accusation made by the leading men among us,
condemned him to the cross, those who had loved
him previously did not cease to do so. And up until
this very day the tribe of Christians, named after him,
has not died out.
Even in this reconstruction, this text is of monumental importance.
Not only is Flavius Josephus the only first century non-Christian
writer who makes reference to Jesus' life, teachings and death and
is his statement independent of the gospels, but he also suggests
that Jesus was innocent. A straightforward report would have told
that Pilate executed the man from Nazareth because he was
considered to be the king of the Jews. But instead of naming the
accusation, the Jewish historian names the accusers. Since he
usually delights in writing about the deserved punishment of rebels
and pretenders, the fact that he does not inform us of the charge,
means that he thought that Jesus was innocent.


Extra-Biblical Historical Evidence for
the LIFE, DEATH, and
RESURRECTION of JESUS

ANCIENT NON-CHRISTIAN SOURCES

Cornelius Tacitus (55-120 AD), "the greatest historian" of ancient Rome:
"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most
exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the
populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty
during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus,
and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out
not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things
hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become
popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon
their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of
firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their
deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or
were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly
illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle,
and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress
of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved
extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was
not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were
being destroyed."

Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas, chief secretary of Emperor Hadrian (117-138 AD):
"Because the Jews of Rome caused continous disturbances at the instigation of
Chrestus, [Claudius] expelled them from the city."
"After the great fire at Rome [during Nero's reign] ... Punishments were also inflicted
on the Christians, a sect professing a new and mischievous religious belief."

Flavius Josephus (37-97 AD), court historian for Emperor Vespasian:
"At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good
and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other
nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And
those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported
that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive;
accordingly, he was perhaps the messiah concerning whom the prophets have
recounted wonders." (Arabic translation)

Julius Africanus, writing around 221 AD, found a reference in the writings of Thallus, who
wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean around 52 AD, which dealt with the darkness
that covered the land during Jesus's crucifixion:
"Thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away the darkness as an eclipse
of the sun--unreasonably, as it seems to me." [A solar eclipse could not take place
during a full moon, as was the case during Passover season.]

Pliny the Younger, Roman governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor around 112 AD:
"[The Christians] were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was
light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound
themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any
fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should
be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then
reassemble to partake of food--but food of an ordinary and innocent kind." Pliny
added that Christianity attracted persons of all societal ranks, all ages, both sexes,
and from both the city and the country. Late in his letter to Emperor Trajan, Pliny
refers to the teachings of Jesus and his followers as excessive and contagious
superstition.

Emperor Trajan, in reply to Pliny:
"The method you have pursued, my dear Pliny, in sifting the cases of those
denounced to you as Christians is extremely proper. It is not possible to lay down any
general rule which can be applied as the fixed standard in all cases of this nature. No
search should be made for these people; when they are denounced and found guilty
they must be punished; with the restriction, however, that when the party denies
himself to be a Christian, and shall give proof that he is not (that is, by adoring our
gods) he shall be pardoned on the ground of repentance, even though he may have
formerly incurred suspicion. Informations without the accuser's name subscribed must
not be admitted in evidence against anyone, as it is introducing a very dangerous
precedent, and by no means agreeable to the spirit of the age."

Emporer Hadrian (117-138 AD), in a letter to Minucius Fundanus, the Asian proconsul:
"I do not wish, therefore, that the matter should be passed by without examination, so
that these men may neither be harassed, nor opportunity of malicious proceedings be
offered to informers. If, therefore, the provincials can clearly evince their charges
against the Christians, so as to answer before the tribunal, let them pursue this
course only, but not by mere petitions, and mere outcries against the Christians. For it
is far more proper, if anyone would bring an accusation, that you should examine it."
Hadrian further explained that if Christians were found guilty they should be judged
"according to the heinousness of the crime." If the accusers were only slandering the
believers, then those who inaccurately made the charges were to be punished.

The Jewish Talmud, compiled between 70 and 200 AD:
"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution
took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he
has practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Anyone who can say anything in
his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was
brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover."
[Another early reference in the Talmud speaks of five of Jesus's disciples and
recounts their standing before judges who make individual decisions about each one,
deciding that they should be executed. However, no actual deaths are recorded.]

Lucian, a second century Greek satirist:
"The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day--the distinguished personage
who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. ... You see, these
misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all
time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so
common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver
that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the
gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they
take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding
them merely as common property." Lucian also reported that the Christians had
"sacred writings" which were frequently read. When something affected them, "they
spare no trouble, no expense."

Mara Bar-Serapion, of Syria, writing between 70 and 200 AD from prison to motivate his
son to emulate wise teachers of the past:
"What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and
plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of
Samos gain from burying Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand.
What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise king? It was just after
that that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: the
Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews,
ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die
for good; he lived on in the teaching of Plato. Pythagoras did not die for good; he
lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise king die for good; he lived on in the
teaching which he had given."

GNOSTICS SOURCES

The Gospel of Truth, probably by Valentius, around 135-160 AD:
"For when they had seen him and had heard him, he granted them to taste him and to
smell him and to touch the beloved Son. When he had appeared instructing them
about the Father. ... For he came by means of fleshly appearance." Other passages
affirm that the Son of God came in the flesh and "the Word came into the midst. ... it
became a body."
"Jesus, was patient in accepting sufferings. . . since he knows that his death is life for
many. . . . he was nailed to a tree; he published the edict of the Father on the cross.
... He draws himself down to death through life. ... eternal clothes him. Having
stripped himself of the perishable rags, he put on imperishability, which no one can
possibly take away from him."

The Aprocryphon of John, probably by Saturninus, around 120-130 AD:
"It happened one day when John, the brother of James,--who are the sons of
Zebedee--went up and came to the temple, that a Pharisee named Arimanius
approached him and said to him, `Where is your master whom you followed?' And he
said to him, 'He has gone to the place from which he came.' The Pharisee said to him,
'This Nazarene deceived you with deception and filled your ears with lies and closed
your hearts and turned you from the traditions of your fathers.'"

The Gospel of Thomas, probably from 140-200 AD:
Contain many references to and alleged quotations of Jesus.

The Treatise On Resurrection, by uncertain author of the late second century, to
Rheginos:
"The Lord ... existed in flesh and ... revealed himself as Son of God ... Now the Son of
God, Rheginos, was Son of Man. He embraced them both, possessing the humanity
and the divinity, so that on the one hand he might vanquish death through his being
Son of God, and that on the other through the Son of Man the restoration to the
Pleroma might occur; because he was originally from above, a seed of the Truth,
before this structure of the cosmos had come into being."
"For we have known the Son of Man, and we have believed that he rose from among
the dead. This is he of whom we say, 'He became the destruction of death, as he is a
great one in whom they believe.' Great are those who believe."
"The Savior swallowed up death. ... He transformed himself into an imperishable Aeon
and raised himself up, having swallowed the visible by the invisible, and he gave us
the way of our immortality."
"Do not think the resurrection is an illusion. It is no illusion, but it is truth. Indeed, it is
more fitting to say that the world is an illusion, rather than the resurrection which has
come into being through our Lord the Savior, Jesus Christ."
". . . already you have the resurrection ... why not consider yourself as risen and
already brought to this?" Rheginos was thus encouraged not to "continue as if you
are to die."

LOST WORKS QUOTED IN OTHER SOURCES

Acts of Pontius Pilate, reports sent from Pilate to Tiberius, referred to by Justin Martyr
(150 AD):
"And the expression, 'They pierced my hands and my feet,' was used in reference to
the nails of the cross which were fixed in His hands and feet. And after he was
crucified, they cast lots upon His vesture, and they that crucified Him parted it among
them. And that these things did happen you can ascertain the 'Acts' of Pontius Pilate."
Later Justin lists several healing miracles and asserts, "And that He did those things,
you can learn from the Acts of Pontius Pilate."

Phlegon, born about 80 AD, as reported by Origen (185-254 AD), mentioned that Jesus made
certain predictions which had been fulfilled.

ANCIENT CHRISTIAN SOURCES
(extra-biblical)

Clement, elder of Rome, letter to the Corinthian church (95 AD):
"The Apostles received the Gospel for us from the Lord Jesus Christ; Jesus Christ
was sent forth from God. So then Christ is from God, and the Apostles are from
Christ. Both therefore came of the will of God in the appointed order. Having therefore
received a charge, and having been fully assured through the resurrection of our Lord
Jesus Christ and confirmed in the word of God with full assurance of the Holy Ghost,
they went forth with the glad tidings that the kingdom of God should come. So
preaching everywhere in country and town, they appointed their firstfruits, when they
had proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons unto them that should
believe."

Ignatius, bishop of Antioch, letter to the Trallians (110-115 AD):
"Jesus Christ who was of the race of David, who was the Son of Mary, who was truly
born and ate and drank, was truly persecuted under Pontius Pilate, was truly crucified
and died in the sight of those in heaven and on earth and those under the earth; who
moreover was truly raised from the dead, His Father having raised Him, who in the
like fashion will so raise us also who believe on Him."

Ignatius, letter to the Smyrneans (110-115 AD):
"He is truly of the race of David according to the flesh, but Son of God by the Divine
will and power, truly born of a virgin and baptised by John that all righteousness might
be fulfilled by Him, truly nailed up in the flesh for our sakes under Pontius Pilate and
Herod the tetrarch (of which fruit are we--that is, of his most blessed passion); that He
might set up an ensign unto all ages through His resurrection."
"For I know and believe that He was in the flesh even after the resurrection; and when
He came to Peter and his company, He said to them, 'Lay hold and handle me, and
see that I am not a demon without body.' And straightway they touched him, and they
believed, being joined unto His flesh and His blood. Wherefore also they despised
death, nay they were found superior to death. And after His resurrection He ate with
them and drank with them."

Ignatius, letter to the Magnesians (110-115 AD):
"Be ye fully persuaded concerning the birth and the passion and the resurrection,
which took place in the time of the governorship of Pontius Pilate; for these things
were truly and certainly done by Jesus Christ our hope."

Quadratus, to Emperor Hadrian about 125 AD:
"The deeds of our Saviour were always before you, for they were true miracles; those
that were healed, those that were raised from the dead, who were seen, not only
when healed and when raised, but were always present. They remained living a long
time, not only whilst our Lord was on earth, but likewise when He had left the earth.
So that some of them have also lived to our own times."

(Pseudo-)Barnabas, written 130-138 AD:
"He must needs be manifested in the flesh. ... He preached teaching Israel and
performing so many wonders and miracles, and He loved them exceedingly. ... He
chose His own apostles who were to proclaim His Gospel. ... But He Himself desired
so to suffer; for it was necessary for Him to suffer on a tree."

Justin Martyr, to Emperor Antoninus Pius about 150 AD:
After referring to Jesus's birth of a virgin in the town of Bethlehem, and that His
physical line of descent came through the tribe of Judah and the family of Jesse,
Justin wrote, "Now there is a village in the land of the Jews, thirty-five stadia from
Jerusalem, in which Jesus Christ was born, as you can ascertain also from the
registers of the taxing made under Cyrenius, your first procurator in Judea."
"Accordingly, after He was crucified, even all His acquaintances forsook Him, having
denied Him; and afterwards, when He had risen from the dead and appeared to them,
and had taught them to read the prophecies in which all these things were foretold as
coming to pass, and when they had seen Him ascending into heaven, and had
believed, and had received power sent thence by Him upon them, and went to every
race of men, they taught these things, and were called apostles."

Justin Martyr, in Dialogue with Trypho, around 150 AD:
"For at the time of His birth, Magi who came from Arabia worshipped Him, coming first
to Herod, who then was sovereign in your land."
"For when they crucified Him, driving in the nails, they pierced His hands and feet;
and those who crucified Him parted His garments among themselves, each casting
lots for what he chose to have, and receiving according to the decision of the lot."
"Christ said amongst you that He would give the sign of Jonah, exhorting you to
repent of your wicked deeds at least after He rose again from the dead ... yet you not
only have not repented, after you learned that He rose from the dead, but, as I said
before, you have sent chosen and ordained men throughout all the world to proclaim
that 'a godless and lawless heresy had sprung from one Jesus, a Galilean deceiver,
whom we crucified, but His disciples stole Him by night from the tomb, where He was
laid when unfastened from the cross, and now deceive men by asserting that He has
risen from the dead and ascended to heaven.'"
"For indeed the Lord remained upon the tree almost until evening, and they buried
Him at eventide; then on the third day He rose again."
Ingen dengang havde nogen interesse i ikke at sige sandheden. Der var ikke nogen divergens for eller imod, for det betød intet om det var det ene eller det andet.
På den anden side vidste de nok hvad som foregik, især dem, som var til stede.
Hilsen Enoch.

hvor gerne jeg end ville, kan jeg simpelt hen ikke samle mig om et indlæg der er på denne længte..... Men en ting slog mig da jeg læste overskriften, og det var et klip jeg så i tv-avisen i søndags(påskesøndag)... frivilligt lader ca 4 philliphinere sig korsfæste på åben plads i en eller anden by,,,,, Helt af egen initiativ, lader de sig gennembore med søm i hænderne og tager glasskårskranse på hovederne, for derefter at hænge der til offentlig skue den hele dag... Og at tænke sig at forældrer havde taget deres børn med der hen for at se på denne tåbelige maskarade..... At folk ikke kan tænke når de er dybt religiøse, er dette endnu et eksempel på... HVORFOR kan folk ikke have et sundt forhold til gud og religion,,,,,

Hejsa
jeg så det samme indslag i nyhederne, og jeg måtte også tænke på den debat vi har igang. Jeg tror det var i Malaysia eller deromkring. Ja, de som hang på korset led virkeligt voldsomt. Men også den der med kæder med barberbalde eller glasskår for enderne, de bruger til at piske sig selv med..det er sgu lidt uhyggeligt. Og det siger nok lidt om hvor langt visse kristne er villige til at gå for at vise deres tro?
Mvh Mandrillen

Kære søde rie,
Ja, jeg forstår dig godt. Først, ja det er et meget langt indlæg ( klip) jeg har medtaget. Det var for at vise, at der faktisk findes utallige beretninger fra tiden om hvad der foregik.
Så man behøver ikke at gætte sig til om Jesus blev Korsfæstet eller ej, det fortæller samtidige historikere.
Grunden er, at som jeg ser det i et historisk perspektiv, så viser det sig, at jo tættere øjenvidner er til en given beretning, jo sand´ere er gengivelsen af hvad som faktisk skete.
Her har vi beretninger få år efter Jesu henrettelse og det var jo ikke kun Jesus, som blev korsfæstet, det blev mange kristne og også alm. forbrydere blev korsfæstet.
Så kan man jo spørge sig selv. Skal jeg tro på hvad Jehovas Vidner bilder mig ind eller skal jeg tro på de skrevne beretninger fra tiden.
Det er altså ikke een eller anden professor, som har fortolket sproget og gået ned i grundsubstansen eller den sproglige sammenhæng det handler om, nej det er den aktuelle beretning fra tiden altså få år efter korsfæstelsen havde fundet sted og stadig blev praktiseret, fortalt med tidens sprog uden bagtanker for, om man nu skulle kunne udlede én eller anden ”lære” af det, som et modargument imod en mulig fremtidig verden af ”falske” kristne.
Hvad skal jeg tro? Jeg vælger, at tro på de samtidige beretninger fra tiden få år efter Jesu Korsfæstelse.
Så kan Jehovas Vidner gerne for mig tro at Jesus blev pælfæstet. Det forandre intet.
Det ser ud til, at Anonym gerne vil ind på, at denne Pæl, muligvis var ja ,grænser til det sandsynlige, blev påmonteret en tværbjælke, som så bagefter blev fæstet til denne pæl; for mig gerne.
Så at blive Pælfæstet i Jehovas vidner Anonym ”verden” betyder altså at Jesus blev naglet til en tværligger af en bjælke , som så blev fæstet til offerPælen hvorefter hans fødder blev naglet til denne Pæl og derfor blev han Pælfæstet Korsfæstet.
Det har jeg ingen problemer med. Det lyder sandsynligt.
Ja, rie, sådan er der så meget. Hvorfor tror du Jehovas vidner gerne vil lægge afstand til den almindelige forklaring eller opfattelse af korset? Det er fordi så kan de bedre lægge afstand til den falske kristenhed. Du ved alle os andre. Vi bliver nemlig kaldt Skøgen fra Åbenbaringen al falsk religion og som Jehovas vidner siger: Det er ikke os som har sagt det, det står i Bibelen.
Nej det gør det ikke, men det er én af de helt store lærerpunkter i Jehovas vidners tro.
How root.
Meget venlig hilsen
Fra Enoch

Kære Anonym,
Desværre. Du er desværre blevet fuldstændig indoktrineret af Jehovas Vidner. Det gør mig virkelig ondt for dig.
På Jehovas Vidner og derfor de enkelte medlemmer passer Jesu ord:
"...men hvis dit øje er sygt, er hele dit legeme i mørke. Hvis nu det lys, der er i dig, er mørke, hvor stort bliver så ikke mørket”.
Matthæus Evangeliet kap. 6 vers 23.
Nu kan man to tro hvad man vil, men derfra og så til at påstå, at "man" har den eneste fulde sandhed og alle andre er fulde af løgn, er der et langt spring.
Ser du Anonym, det er med Bibelen og fortolkninger, at de sjældent holder vand ret længe af gangen.
Jeg vil nødig gøre dig ked af det, men når jeg læser Jehovas vidners litteratur gennem de sidste 100 år så må jeg sige, at de mange forskellige forklaringer til de samme spørgsmål Jehovas Vidner har kommet med, grænser til forfalskning.
Alle dine forklaringer er taget ud af sin sammenhæng og handler om situationer og spørgsmål og begivenheder, som de enkelte udtalelser har med at gøre. Som du og Jehovas Vidner bruger dem, bliver de til isolerede tilfælde af lovbud, som kan bruges efter forgodt befindende.
Jeg ved godt I kalder det "Nyt Lys" eller som du selv har skrevet her på debatten, " som lyset vokser i glans fra øst...." og det var det jeg svarede, at den kender jeg godt. Den hedder i den kristne verden " I østen stiger solen op", men det I kalder nyt lys, det kalder jeg bæl ravende mørke.
Der er ikke noget der hedder nyt lys. Lyset skinner hele tiden.
I jeres forfalskning af Johannes Evangeliet kap. 1 vers 1, hvor I lige pludselig opererer med 2 Guder, siges der i vers 5 :
” Og lyset skinner i mørket og mørket fik ikke bugt med det”.
Ser du Anonym, Bibelen behøver ingen fortolkning. Læs den, som den er og ser ud og forstå den, som Helligånden giver dig i dit hjerte.
Nu vil jeg henvise til flere pålidelige kilder vedr. Jesu Korsfæstelse og hvis du for én gangs skyld kunne læse disse ting uden dine ” Jehovas Vidner briller” så prøv, at se om du kan forstå hvad der siges.
The Sign of the Cross is more than an action. It is a statement of
faith in the Father, and in the Son, and in the Holy Spirit. We follow
it with, Amen, which means, 'Yes, it’s true!' TERTULLIAN, WRITING IN
THE THIRD CENTURY, TELLS US THAT CHRISTIANS MADE THE SIGN OF THE CROSS
UPON RISING, AS THEY WERE DRESSING, UPON ENTERING OR LEAVING THEIR
HOUSES, GOING TO THE BATH, SITTING DOWN AT TABLE, AND IN FACT BEFORE
TAKING ANY SIGNIFICANT ACTION.
ST. AUGUSTINE TELLS US, 'IT IS BY THE SIGN
OF THE CROSS that the Body of the Lord is consecrated, that baptismal
fonts are sanctified, that priests and other ranks in the Church are
admitted to their respective orders, and everything that is to be made
holy is consecrated by the sign of our Lord’s cross, with the
invocation of the name of Christ.' Sermon LXXXI

This is a very ancient practice going back to the earliest
Christians. HIPPOLYTUS SPEAKS OF MAKING THE SIGN OF THE CROSS AS A
REGULAR HABIT OF FAITHFUL CHRISTIANS AROUND 220. It was developed as a
reminder and symbol of the power of the cross of Jesus Christ from top
(forehead) to center (chest) to left (shoulder) to right (shoulder).
It is used as a form of blessing and is sometimes used at the mention
of death or the deceased to remind us that death is not the final word
and that it has been triumphed over by the cross and the resurrection.
We also make 'mini' crosses at the reading of the Gospel on our
foreheads 'God be in my mind,' on our lips 'God be in my words,' and
on our hearts 'God be in my heart.' MAKING THE SIGN OF THE CROSS IS
MERELY AN OPTIONAL OUTWARD SYMBOL AND REMINDER OF THE REALITY OF THE
POWER OF THE CROSS IN FAITH, AND IS NOT AN ACT OF MAGIC OR
SUPERSTITION."
HOWEVER, THE MAJOR CHRISTIAN
TRADITIONS DO NOT ACCEPT EITHER THE NWT OR THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES AS
BEING LEGITIMATE MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH. I DO NOT SAY THIS TO ACCUSE,
JUST AS A POINT OF FACT, FOR THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES DON'T SUBSCRIBE
TO BASIC TENENTS OF THE HISTORICAL CHRISTIAN CHURCH EMBODIED IN THE
FINALLY IT COULD BE AN INSTRUMENT OF EXECUTION IN THE FORM OF A VERTICAL STAKE AND A CROSSBEAM OF THE SAME LENGTH FORMING A CROSS IN THE NARROWER SENSE OF THE TERM. IT TOOK THE FORM EITHER OF A T (LAT. CRUX COMMISSA) OR OF A + (CRUX IMMISSA). (VOL. 1, PAGE 391)
The Greek word xylon can mean "wood, a piece of wood, or anything made of wood," and can refer to a cross as well, as pointed out in Vine's Expository Dictionary, Vol. 4, p. 153.
HISTORICAL FINDINGS:
Historical findings have substantiated the traditional cross. One finding is a graffito1 dating to shortly after 200 A.D., taken from the walls of the ROMAN PALATINE. IT IS A DRAWING OF A CRUCIFIED ASS; A MOCKERY OF A CHRISTIAN PRISONER WHO WORSHIPS CHRIST. The Romans were no doubt amused that Christians worshiped this Jesus whom they had crucified on a cross.
In June of 1968, bulldozers working north of Jerusalem accidentally laid BARE TOMBS DATING FROM THE FIRST CENTURY B.C. and the first century A.D. Greek archeologist Vasilius Tzaferis was instructed by the Israeli Department of Antiquities to carefully excavate these tombs. Subsequently one of the most exciting finds of recent times was unearthed - the first SKELETAL REMAINS OF A CRUCIFIED MAN. The most significant factor is its dating to around the time of Christ. The skeleton was of a man named Yehohanan son of Chaggol, who had been crucified between the age of 24 and 28. Mr. Tzaferis wrote an article in the Jan/Feb. 1985 issue of the secular magazine Biblical Archaeology Review (BAR), and here are some of his comments regarding crucifixion in Jesus' time:
AT THE END OF THE FIRST CENTURY B.C., THE ROMANS ADOPTED CRUCIFIXION AS AN OFFICIAL PUNISHMENT FOR NON-ROMANS FOR CERTAIN LIMITED TRANSGRESSIONS. INITIALLY, IT WAS EMPLOYED NOT AS A METHOD OF EXECUTION, BUT ONLY AS A PUNISHMENT. MOREOVER, ONLY SLAVES CONVICTED OF CERTAIN CRIMES WERE PUNISHED BY CRUCIFIXION. DURING THIS EARLY PERIOD, A WOODEN BEAM, KNOWN AS A FURCA OR PATIBULUM WAS PLACED ON THE SLAVE'S NECK AND BOUND TO HIS ARMS.
...WHEN THE PROCESSION ARRIVED AT THE EXECUTION SITE, A VERTICAL STAKE WAS FIXED INTO THE GROUND. SOMETIMES THE VICTIM WAS ATTACHED TO THE CROSS ONLY WITH ROPES. IN SUCH A CASE, THE PATIBULUM OR CROSSBEAM, TO WHICH THE VICTIM'S ARMS WERE ALREADY BOUND, WAS SIMPLY AFFIXED TO THE VERTICAL BEAM; THE VICTIM'S FEET WERE THEN BOUND TO THE STAKE WITH A FEW TURNS OF THE ROPE.
IF THE VICTIM WAS ATTACHED BY NAILS, HE WAS LAID ON THE GROUND, WITH HIS SHOULDERS ON THE CROSSBEAM. HIS ARMS WERE HELD OUT AND NAILED TO THE TWO ENDS OF THE CROSSBEAM, WHICH WAS THEN RAISED AND FIXED ON TOP OF THE VERTICAL BEAM. THE VICTIM'S FEET WERE THEN NAILED DOWN AGAINST THIS VERTICAL STAKE.
In order to prolong the agony, Roman executioners devised two instruments that would keep the victim alive on the cross for extended periods of time. One, known as a sedile, was a small seat attached to the front of the cross, about halfway down. This device provided some support for the victim's body and may explain the phrase used by the Romans, "to sit on the cross." Both Eraneus and Justin Martyr describe the cross of Jesus as having five extremities rather than four; the fifth was probably the sedile. (p. 48,49)
IN A FOLLOWUP ARTICLE ON THIS ARCHEOLOGICAL FIND IN THE NOV/DEC. ISSUE OF BAR, THE STATEMENT IS MADE:
ACCORDING TO THE (ROMAN) LITERARY SOURCES, THOSE CONDEMNED TO CRUCIFIXION NEVER CARRIED THE COMPLETE CROSS, DESPITE THE COMMON BELIEF TO THE CONTRARY AND DESPITE THE MANY MODERN RE-ENACTMENTS OF JESUS' WALK TO GOLGOTHA. INSTEAD, ONLY THE CROSSBAR WAS CARRIED, WHILE THE UPRIGHT WAS SET IN A PERMANENT PLACE WHERE IT WAS USED FOR SUBSEQUENT EXECUTIONS. AS THE FIRST-CENTURY JEWISH HISTORIAN JOSEPHUS NOTED, WOOD WAS SO SCARCE IN JERUSALEM DURING THE FIRST CENTURY A.D. THAT THE ROMANS WERE FORCED TO TRAVEL TEN MILES FROM JERUSALEM TO SECURE TIMBER FOR THEIR SIEGE MACHINERY. (P. 21)
SIMILAR ARE THE DETAILS MENTIONED UNDER "CROSS" IN THE NEW INTERNATIONAL DICTIONARY OF NEW TESTAMENT THEOLOGY:
It is certain only that the Romans practised this form of execution. But is is most likely that the stauros had a transverse in the form of a crossbeam. Secular sources do not permit any conclusion to be drawn as to the precise form of the cross, as to whether it was the crux immissa (+) or crux commissa (T). As it was not very common to affix a titlos (superscription, loanword from the Lat. titulus), it does not necessarily follow that the cross had the form of a crux immissa.
THERE WERE TWO POSSIBLE WAYS OF ERECTING THE STAUROS. THE CONDEMNED MAN COULD BE FASTENED TO THE CROSS LYING ON THE GROUND AT THE PLACE OF EXECUTION, AND SO LIFTED UP ON THE CROSS. ALTERNATIVELY, IT WAS PROBABLY USUAL TO HAVE THE STAKE IMPLANTED IN THE GROUND BEFORE THE EXECUTION. THE VICTIM WAS TIED TO THE CROSSPIECE, AND WAS HOISTED UP WITH THE HORIZONTAL BEAM AND MADE FAST TO THE VERTICAL STAKE. AS THIS WAS THE SIMPLER FORM OF ERECTION, AND THE CARRYING OF THE CROSSBEAM (PATIBULUM) WAS PROBABLY CONNECTED WITH THE PUNISHMENT FOR SLAVES, THE CRUX COMMISSA MAY BE TAKEN AS THE NORMAL PRACTICE. THE CROSS WOULD PROBABLY HAVE BEEN NOT MUCH HIGHER THAN THE HEIGHT OF A MAN. (VOL. 1, P. 392)
OTHER ARCHEOLOGICAL FINDS:
Aside from the most recent discoveries, there are a few others of interest we will note. Here is one involving a discovery in 1873:
In 1873 a famous French scholar, Charles Clermant-Ganneau, reported the discovery of a burial chamber or cave on the MOUNT OF OLIVES. INSIDE WERE SOME 30 OSSUARIES (RECTANGULAR CHESTS MADE OF STONE) IN WHICH SKELETAL REMAINS WERE PRESERVED AFTER THEIR BODIES HAD DISINTEGRATED. . . . ONE (OSSUARY) HAD THE NAME "JUDAH" ASSOCIATED WITH A CROSS WITH ARMS OF EQUAL LENGTH. FURTHER, THE NAME "JESUS" OCCURRED THREE TIMES, TWICE IN ASSOCIATION WITH A CROSS. . . .
IT WOULD BE UNLIKELY THAT CHRISTIAN JEWS WOULD HAVE BEEN BURIED IN THAT AREA AFTER 135 A.D. SINCE THE ROMANS FORBADE JEWS TO ENTER AELIA CAPITOLINA . . . AFTER THE SECOND JEWISH REVOLT. (FROM ANCIENT TIMES, VOL. 3, NO. 1, JULY 1958, P. 3.)
IN 1939 EXCAVATIONS AT HERCULANEUM, THE SISTER CITY OF POMPEII (DESTROYED IN 78 A.D. BY VOLCANO) PRODUCED A HOUSE WHERE A WOODEN CROSS HAD BEEN NAILED TO THE WALL OF A ROOM. ACCORDING TO BURIED HISTORY, (VOL. 10, NO. 1, MARCH 1974 P. 15):
BELOW THIS (CROSS) WAS A CUPBOARD WITH A STEP IN FRONT. THIS HAS CONSIDERED TO BE IN THE SHAPE OF AN ARA OR SHRINE, BUT COULD WELL HAVE BEEN USED AS A PLACE OF PRAYER. . . . IF THIS INTERPRETATION IS CORRECT, AND THE EXCAVATORS ARE STRONGLY IN FAVOR OF THE CHRISTIAN SIGNIFICANCE OF SYMBOL AND FURNISHINGS, THEN HERE WE HAVE THE EXAMPLE OF AN EARLY HOUSE CHURCH.
IN 1945 A FAMILY TOMB WAS DISCOVERED IN JERUSALEM BY PROF. E.L. SUKENIK OF THE MUSEUM OF JEWISH ANTIQUITIES OF THE Hebrew University. Prof. Sukenik is the world's leading authority on Jewish ossuaries. Note his findings:
Two of the ossuaries bear the name "Jesus" in Greek. . . . The second of these also has four large crosses drawn. . . . (Prof. Sukenik) concluded that the full inscriptions and the crosses were related, being expressions of grief at the crucifixion of Jesus, being written about that time. . . . PROFESSOR SUKENIK POINTS OUT . . . (THAT) THE CROSS MAY REPRESENT A "PICTORIAL EXPRESSION OF THE CRUCIFIXION, TANTAMOUNT TO EXCLAIMING `HE WAS CRUCIFIED!'" AS THE TOMB IS DATED BY POTTERY, LAMPS AND THE CHARACTER OF THE LETTERS USED IN THE INSCRIPTIONS--FROM THE FIRST CENTURY B.C. TO NOT LATER THAN THE MIDDLE OF THE FIRST CENTURY A.D. THIS MEANS THAT THE INSCRIPTIONS FALL WITHIN TWO DECADES OF THE CRUCIFIXION AT THE LATEST. (ANCIENT TIMES, VOL. 3, NO. 1, JULY 1958, P. 35. SEE ALSO VOL. 5, NO. 3, MARCH 1961, P. 13.)
Desværre Anonym, du burde læse lidt mere på lektien inden du og Jehovas Vidner Aktieselskabet Watchtower Bible Tract Society Inc. Begynder at omskrive Bibelen.
Se, jeg ved godt jeres motivation for at gøre dette. I vil gerne adskille jer fra hele den Kristne verden, som i jeres øjne slet ikke er Kristen i jeres forståelse. Derfor gør I alt hvad I kan for at fortælle, at Jesus ikke blev Korsfæstet som resten af verden tror.
Derfor skriver du, at Jehovas vidner er Kristendommen.
Nej, det er I ikke. I kunne virkelig gå ind og spille jeres rolle på verdensarenaen og blive en værdifuld del af den Kristne verden, men …..” I ville ikke”.
Kan jeg motivere dig til, at tænke en ekstra gang over situationen? Kan jeg ”ægge ” Jehovas vidner til at tænke sig en ekstra gang om igen?

Du har én stærk fordel i denne Debat. Folk er ikke vant til at læse så meget stof og opgiver på forhånd er jeg bange for. Det benytter Jehovas Vidner sig af .
How root.
Efter min bedste overbevisning, tror jeg ikke jeg har mere at tilføje til dette. Det næste punkt jeg vil tage op er ( ja treenighedslæren har jeg skrevet om) så det næste bliver: ” Jesu Genkomst” .
Glæd dig, det er lige dit speciale.
Meget venlig hilsen
Enoch