46tilføjet af

Vidnernes gode opførsel

I en tråd fremhæver ftg igen Jehovas vidner for deres ubeklagelige opførsel. Ang. filosofiprofessoren Antony Flew skriver han, at Flew skulle have overvejet at blive et Jehovas vidne - "så må det være, fordi han har lagt mærke til deres gode opførsel." Det følgende er blot ét eksempel på, at glansbilledet krakelerer i virkeligheden. Døm selv:
I am a 43 old male living in the UK. I was raised from birth in the JW faith. From as early as I can recall up until the day I left home aged 21, I was repeatedly beaten, and on a number of occasions was rendered unconscious by the prolific attacks made by my natural parents. My medical records at that time verify my physician's concerns for my well being. At the age of 20 I reported the matter to the Elders of my congregation after a particular vicious and prolonged beating from my father. The elders dismissed my claims out of hand and then consequently called him up and advised him that I had been to see the elders. I suffered broken teeth, a broken nose, chipped eye sockets and multiple bruising. I left home in 1983 and never returned to the faith. Since then I have learned that my parents advised the elders that I had become alcohol dependent and a drug user. These alligations are totally unfounded. I left home in 1983 and set up a successful engineering consultancy, married my wife and raised 4 children. We have now been married for 22 years. At all times during those dark years of dreadful abuse, all the elders in the A Congregation turned
a total blind eye to the issue and refused to acknowledge that I was being beaten to a pulp on a daily basis.
Yours faithfully, AS, England.
(www.silentlambs.org)
Konrad A.
tilføjet af

Nej, konrad A

det har ftg aldrig sagt. Ftg har citeret Antony Flews ord, men igen har igen og igen lavet om på ftg's ord. Se, sådan er det!
tilføjet af

du naiv

tror du virkelig på alt hvad du læser❓og er alt hvad man læser rigtig?
tilføjet af

Birthe West er en løgner.

Ja, Birthe West. Så kom turen til dig. At være en løgner er jo ikke noget slemt. Det er helt normalt, at vi stikker en hvid løgn en gang imellem.
Så hvis du vil sige til mig: "Enoch har du nogen sinde givet en hvid løgn, så måtte jeg svar dig. Ja, Birthe West, det har jeg".
Nå, hvad er det så du lyver om? Kunne du ikke godt tage at være ærlig og fortælle debatten, hvori din løgn består?
Du skal ikke være bange for konsekvenserne, vi kender det alt for godt selv.
Dette er jo ikke nogen debat med Jehovas Vidner. Det handler om propaganda og tilsvining af en hel verden fra Jehovas Vidner side, så ofrene er os andre, ikke jer.
Derfor vil det være ( sikkert være) en let sag for dig, at modbevise det jeg beskylder dig for.
Hvis du derimod ønsker en debat om det indlæg her du kommentere på en falsk og løgnagtig måde, så kan vi debattere det OK?
Enoch
tilføjet af

hej vidne!

Nej, jeg tror nemlig ikke på alt hvad jeg læser, men jeg kan skelne! Hvorfor tager du ikke stilling til indholdet i beskrivelsen?
Konrad
tilføjet af

du naiv

Ja, det er jeg overbevist om.Kilden er korrekt og seriøs. Det er du ikke.
Enoch.
tilføjet af

KonradA

Tak det var vist også det jeg ville sige til diverse vidner.
Du siger det på en bedre måde end jeg.
Jeg stiller mig i "køen" og venter på vidnernes svar.
Enoch
tilføjet af

Enoch tager forkert

Enoch du er virkelig en af de slags personligheder som må ha de svært! kommer med den ene løgn efter den anden! det synd for dig...
Det er virkelig som om du har problemer med de fredelige mennesker som kalder sig for Jehovas Vidner! lad de dog være i fred...
Hvis flere bare havde en tro/religion som dem!
tilføjet af

Alle og enhver kan beskylde hinanden for at være løgnere.

Hvad skulle jeg have sagt forkert?
tilføjet af

har i tænk på...

Alle debatter om JV "dør" ud pga.folk er klar over at mange af de ting som bliver sagt om JV er fulde af løgn... hehe...
I kan ikke holde "liv" i debattene...
tilføjet af

OK, Birthe West.

Birthe West,
Der gjorde du det eneste rigtige. Gå direkte efter det der er sagt og forsøg på, at få klarlagt; hvad handler dette om.
Det du nu efterlyser er mit svar på hvad du har sagt forkert ( løgn), hvis du overhovedet har sagt noget forkert.
Du har ret i, at enhver kan sige dit og dat, men er der substands i det. Det er spørgsmålet.
Så nu har du mig foran dig og jeg vil svare dig, men først skal du fortælle mig åbent og ærligt. Vil du i en dialog om dette her eller er du blot ude på at køre rundt i manegen i en form for Jehovas Vidner retorik?
Hvis du vil svare mig ærligt på det spørgsmål, vil jeg gå i en dialog med dig og fortælle mig hvad jeg mener.
Enoch
tilføjet af

Hej, du der vås.

Tak for din henvendelse. Hvis du ønsker at debattere noget, så skulle du tage og komme med noget konkret du ønsker belyst. Det trænger du til.
Enoch
tilføjet af

Hej Girl25

Ja, jeg kan kun svare for mig selv. Ja, jeg har tænkt på alt det du har tænkt på.
Enoch
tilføjet af

Eksempler, tak

Prøv at give et par eksempler på, at det, der har været berørt her på debatten om Jehovas vidner, er løgn. Dokumentér det, please.
Konrad.
tilføjet af

En tom påstand.

Jeg er interesseret i at du fortæller mig, hvad jeg har sagt forkert, ellers er din beskyldnong en tom påstand.
tilføjet af

Eksempel

tilføjet af

Omvendt bevisførelse

Hvordan havde du forestillet dig, man skulle dokumentere at dit indlæg er løgn?
Når det så er sagt, så forstår jeg ikke formålet med det her. Hvad er dit ærinde? Hvis du skal en hel generation tilbage og ovenikøbet til England for at finde noget "smuds" så man sige, der er langt imellem synderne blandt Jehovas Vidner.
Det der undre mig er, at den type beretninger altid er skrevet som var de klar til udgivelse i "Det Bedste" Hvordan kan det være?
Måske er historien sand, måske er historien løgn og latin, men mest interessant er dog: Hvad skal vi med den? Lægge Jehovas Vidner for had?
Dét interesserer mig ikke. De gør ikke mig noget og jeg gør ikke dem noget. Jeg synes du skulle tage samme beslutning.
tilføjet af

Masser af eksempler

er der verden over på det ene og det andet ang. Jehovas vidner. Men at komme med kritiske indlæg om Jehovas vidner synes at forstyrre den danske hygge. For hvorfor skal man dog prøve at foretage sig lidt besværligt for at se, om det, vidnerne påstår om dem selv, slet ikke holder stik. Det er blot trættende at høre om deresfremhæven sig selv, og for det meste gennem kopieret materiale.
Hvis du vil bedømme, om det, jeg skriver, er løgn, kan du jo prøve at efterchecke det på www.silentlams.org, www.watchtowerinformationservice.org, www.watchtowernews.org, ellr www.randytv.com

Konrad A.
tilføjet af

P.S.

Du skriver :"De [Jehovas vidner] gør ikke mig noget, og jeg gør ikke dem noget." Hvis det var dit barn, der blev begået incest imod, ville du så være ligeglad? Er det da ligemeget, at det kan gå ud over andres børn? Og der er masser af eksempler på incest-overgreb inden for vidnernes kreds. Eksempler fra hele verden.
Konrad A.
tilføjet af

Håbløst.

Jeg lægger op til en seriøs dialog, hvor jeg giver dig mulighed for, at gå ind i dialogen og få "oprejsning" for min påstand (hvis jeg har sagt noge som ikke er korrekt).
Hvad vælger du? Jehovas Vidner retorik med det samme.
Hvis du ikke kan svare mig på mit oplæg, men kun kan fremture med Jehovas Vidner retorik, kan du opgive det.
Det gider jeg simpelt hen ikke og så må du leve med min påstand.
Skulle du føle anderledes, at du er interesseret i en dialog, stiller jeg gerne op.
Enoch.
PS. Jeg gider simpelt hen ikke dette Jehovas Vidner fis.
tilføjet af

Den største bedrager af dem alle.

Jeg har forsøgt at få et svar, men han vil ikke. Hvorfor? Fordi det er løgn, derfor.
Så det forklare alt, denne lådne buk.
Du ved.
Ftg er kun ude på at lyve og bedrage og jeg kan bevise det og jeg har bevist det, men han vælger " at være stærk og ikke svare mig" ( citat Birthe West).
Enoch
tilføjet af

Jo Birthe

tilføjet af

Hej "kolge".

" De gør ikke nogen noget"? Hvor dum har man lov til at være?
Enoch
tilføjet af

Stavefejl: der skal stå Kloge.

Enoch.
tilføjet af

Hej Konrad!

Der er her eksempler på vores hellige middelmådighed. Og hvad angår selve troen, afhænger danskeres asvar vel af, om man kan hygge sig i himlen, må grille, og om der er skrabelod. Så¨kan det da lyde interessant :o) Men ellers, lad os være i vores lineære mangel på stillingtagen, når andre ikke gør os noget personligt :D.
Tanten.
tilføjet af

Indsigtsfuld!

Selvfølgelig! Ftg. er jo en fyrig besvarer af spørgsmål, hvad de end måtte gå ud på. Især de kritiske svarer han på som en ørn. Og hvor er vidnerne gode. Det siger de i hvert fald selv:o).
Hver eneste et af vidnerne er virkelig et godt menneske. Også bag kulisserne. Vi andre? Tjaee. Hvad vligner det at vise en anden side af billedet hos vidnerne! Må vi lige være her...
Tanten.
tilføjet af

Nej, ved du nu hvad!

Tag lige at læse denne her:
http://debat.sol.dk/show.fcgi?category=6&conference=217&posting=410338
Så vidt jeg ved bliver Jehovas vidner udstødt, hvis de foretager sig den slags skændselsgerninger.
tilføjet af

Hej bla bla bla

Hej Dantes tante
Bla bla bla bla bla bla.
Enoch
tilføjet af

Din påstand

er jo løgn, Enoch.
tilføjet af

Hej vidne!

1. Det nytter ikke noget at sætte søgelyset over på andre. Det er velkendt, at der f.eks. har fundet bovergreb sted inden for den katolske kirke.2. I modsætning hertil er det endnu lykkedes mange vidnemenigheder verden over at fortie og skjule sexovergreb, hvilket du også ville kunne vide, hvis du turde sætte dig ind i tingene om det, lige så meget som pegefingeren er hævet, når det gælder andrte trosretninger. Det er bare det, jeg prøver at skabe lidt balance i.
Konrad.
tilføjet af

Der skal stå klage

"K-L-A-G-E"
tilføjet af

Er du blevet dement?

Der skal stå:
Bra bra bra bra bra bra.
tilføjet af

Undskyld, "Kagle"

eller kalge.
tilføjet af

Ha!

Hvor dum har man lov at være?
tilføjet af

Ikke jeg, men....

Troede du det var en annonce for dameundertøj? Nej, hvad jeg skrev er fuldstændig i overensstemmelse med virkeligheden.
Enoch
tilføjet af

Det bliver alligevel ikke mine børn

det kommer til at gå ud over - de er ude af farezonen og hvad angår andres børn, så er der vist andre grupper der er tydeligere i statistikkerne.
Hvis dit ærinde er at bekæmpe incest, er det da en patstisk måde at gribe det an.
Og som nævnt andet sted. Det er ikke accepteret opførsel hos JV - find nogle af de grupper der hylder incest og pædofili - der er masser af danske mænd der hvert år rejser ud af landet for at dyrke deres lyster i den retning. Ville du gøre noget væsentligt i den retning kan du starte med at få pædofiligrupperne herhjemme opløst.
-Og så stadig. Hvis der er så mange eksempler, hvorfor så gå en generation tilbage og til England?
tilføjet af

Hvis der er blevet begået overgreb,

så er det i orden at der bliver betalt erstatning, men det er da ikke Jehovas vidner der skal betale erstatningen. Det skal den der har begået overgrebet.
tilføjet af

Du rabler, som sædvanelig.

Du aner ikke hvad du udtaler dig om. Tror måske du skulle forny dit abonnement på Vagttårnet og Vågn Op. Ellers kan du indhente oplysningerne om det jeg skriver om, her på Internettet.
Ja, det er Jehovas Vidners organisation, der har måtte etablere en kæmpebank, med penge til sådanne sager.
Skaf dig selv de oplysninger der er relevante og find noget seriøst at foretage dig.
Enoch
tilføjet af

Stor viden!

Du skriver, at det ikke er accepteret opførsel hos Jehovas vidner (incest). Undskyld, men hvad ved du om det? Jeg mener selvfølgelig ikke, at alle vidner tilskynder til eller accepterer incest og andre overgreb. Jeg skrev, at mange menigheder verden over skjuler og fortier overgreb, og det er sandheden.
Jeg ved også udmærket, at nogle mænd her fra landet tager udenlands for at begå deres uhyrligheder mod børn. Og de skal selvfølgelig forfølges og straffes efter deres overtrædelser. Men i den her foerbindelse har det været Jehovas vidner, der må tage en del af vanæren, især fordi de altid får det til at lyde, som om alt er lutter idyl inden for deres rækker, i modsætning til andre trosretninger, og der er mange psykologiske forklaringer på det.
Og så skriver du, det virker noget utroværdigt, fordi jeg skal en generation tilbage og til England. Jeg gav i mit indlæg "Masser af eksempler" henvisninger til nettet. Dér kan du se, at tilstandene er, som jeg har beskrevet, også i dag, og at du har uret.
Konrad.
tilføjet af

Hvis det er mig du mener

så bedes du venligst undlade at tviste mine udtalelser. Jeg skrev de ikke gør mig noget.
Jeg har svært ved at forestille mig hvorfor jeg skulle få en anden behandling end alle andre.
tilføjet af

Kan du dokumentere

at den fond eksisterer?
tilføjet af

Har bedømt indholdet

af dine udgydelser - og vurderet de hører til under kategorien "Vandrehistorier", men du mangler stadig at svare mig på hvad formålet er med det her.
tilføjet af

Ja.

Så let som, at klø mig selv i nakken.
Enoch
tilføjet af

Oplys os

Hej enoch
Det vil jeg egentligt også gerne se dokumenteret, da jeg ikke selv er stødt på det...
tilføjet af

Dokumentation?

Hej again,
Jeg har før skrevet om det, men her er noget materiale; måske kan du bruge det.
+

Why did Jehovah's Witnesses pay the largest cash settlement in its history?
CultNews.com/March 5, 2003
The largest settlement ever paid in the history of Jehovah's Witnesses occurred this past October, but no news outlet has yet reported it.
The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, which is the umbrella organization over 6 million Witnesses worldwide, paid the estate of Frances Coughlin $1.55 million dollars rather than let a jury decide the wrongful death lawsuit.
Frances Coughlin's surviving family sued Jehovah's Witnesses, also known as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, in State of Connecticut Superior Court at Milford (CV-00-0072183 S).
The principle defendant was a "Bethelite," or full-time ministry worker, who drove recklessly in bad weather and killed Ms. Coughlin, a mother and grandmother, on October 8, 1998.
That Bethelite Jordon Johnson was traveling between "Bethel," which has housing for its full-time workers in Patison, New Jersey and Brooklyn, New York, to a Witness Kingdom Hall he was assigned to in Derby, Connecticut.
Johnson was found guilty of vehicular manslaughter, but only served 30 days in jail and was sentenced to two years probation. Subsequently, he and Jehovah's Witnesses faced a civil suit filed by Ms. Coughlin's surviving family for damages.
Why was the Witness organization willing to pay more than $1.5 million dollars?
Apparently because a much larger issue of "agency" was at stake.
Agency is the word used to express a relationship between a principal party and its agent, through which the principal party projects its power and/or advances some purpose. And a principal party may be held liable for the actions of its agent.
Jehovah's Witnesses contended that Jordan Johnson acted on his own and was not their agent at the time he caused the fatal car wreck.
But plaintiff's counsel, Joel Faxon of Koskoff, Koskoff & Bieder, claimed on his client's behalf that Jordan Johnson was serving as a Bethelite and agent of the organization at the time and advancing their purpose, therefore Jehovah's Witnesses was responsible for his actions.
Internal documents were obtained through the discovery process and testimony was given through depositions, which clarified and substantiated Faxon's view.
I was retained as an expert witness and consultant for this case by the plaintiff's counsel.
My role was to assist in the discovery process, provide research and generally help to form a basis for an understanding of how Jehovah's Witnesses employ, use and control Bethelites and others within their organization. Ultimately, I would have also testified as an expert in court.
That testimony would have included explaining in clear terms how the organizational dynamics, indoctrination and objectives of Jehovah's Witnesses impact individual members and more specifically full-time workers such as Bethelite Jordan Johnson.
But on the first day of trial Jehovah's Witnesses decided they didn't want a jury to decide this case and instead $1.55 million was paid to the plaintiff.
The organization that claims it is waiting for the ever-eminent "end of the world" decided to settle in a pragmatic move to protect its long-term interests and more than $1 billion dollars of accumulated assets.
Again, why would the Witnesses do this if they actually believed they had no meaningful liability?
Certainly the cost to complete the case in court would be far less than $1.55 million dollars. Why not let the jury decide?
But the seemingly shrewd Witnesses realized that there was just too much at stake and didn't want to risk a "guilty" verdict.
Currently the organization known as Jehovah's Witnesses faces a growing number of lawsuits filed by former members who feel the organization has hurt them.
The personal injuries were allegedly caused by elders and others acting in accordance with the organization's policies and doctrines, which include such matters as blood transfusions and sexual abuse.
Seemingly to protect its assets the Watchtower Society of Jehovah's Witnesses and its many Kingdom Hall congregations have in recent years created a myriad of corporate entities to apparently contain liability.
That is, each corporation is seemingly only responsible for its own specific actions and not the action of others. Again, this appears to be a rather pragmatic legal approach to protect the assets amassed by Jehovah's Witnesses over more than a century.
But what if Jehovah's Witnesses are nevertheless responsible or liable for the actions of its agents, which would include elders and others throughout its vast network of districts and Kingdom Halls?
Well, now you can see why the check was likely cut for $1.55 million in the Coughlin case.
Jehovah's Witnesses were apparently concerned about what legal precedent a jury might set that could ultimately affect other claims pending or potentially possible in the future against the organization.
Many people seem to think that Jehovah's Witnesses or the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is focused on the end of the world and a coming kingdom. At least that's the impression many have when its members come knocking at the door.
But through the Coughlin case a different view of the organization emerges, which looks more like a business protecting its worldly assets and focused on the bottom line.
To see more documents/articles regarding this group/organization/subject click here.

www.rickross.com/reference/jw/jw168.html
+
Who Pays For Child Abuse?
Spanish Translation
I just received another report of a deposition being taken regarding the current litigation involving Jehovah's Witnesses and their handling of child abuse within the congregation. It is interesting to note that when a lawsuit is filed on a matter of this nature all defendants are subject to paying financial restitution when the case is decided. This means the local elders, the local Kingdom Hall, the serving Circuit Overseer, District Overseer and of course the Watchtower Corporation itself will be liable for monetary damages. Will Watchtower Corporation pay? Of course, but also any assets of others involved in the lawsuit will also come under lien for satisfaction of any judgment. This could mean any elder who has been involved in a molestation case could lose his home, car and life savings as a result of supporting a policy he was mandated to follow as a representative of the Watchtower Society. You might compare it to when the military in years past prosecuted soldiers that killed women and children at the command of their superiors. Did this excuse their actions? Were the superiors the only ones prosecuted? No, all parties were held liable for doing what was morally and ethically wrong in hurting the innocent. In a similar way any person in a position of trust that has supported or authorized the implementation of Watchtower Policy could be held liable and subject to judgments from the courts.
If you as an elder were involved in a judicial hearing that concerned child abuse five, ten, or even twenty years ago you will have to look over your shoulder for the rest of your life in the event any of the victims decide they were hurt by your implementation of Watchtower Policy. Can this really happen? An example might be the tobacco companies and their fight to deny that cigarettes hurt people. When lawyers went to court and set the precedent that in fact this was the case then all any smoker had to do was align themselves with an attorney who was filing a lawsuit of this issue and collect a check. Court precedence is already established in the case of the Catholic Church that the first amendment does not give religion the right to hurt molested children by their policy. One attorney alone has won over 400 cases for victims based on this precedent. The bridge is simple to show that Jehovah's Witnesses by their policies and practice has hurt thousands of children. All that needs to be done is show this for one child, that is, just one case has to be won establishing that precedent for Jehovah's Witnesses. Once that simple step is taken it will open the way for thousands of abuse survivors to come forward and demand compensation to recover from the abuse wrought by representatives at the direction of the Watchtower Society.
Perhaps a question that needs to be asked is; does an elder deserve to lose everything he owns for his participation in destroying the life of a child? Should he be prosecuted and put in prison or pay fines if he is found to be in violation of state laws while he was acting at the direction of the Watchtower Legal Department? How would you answer?
Secondly relates to the use of World Wide Work Donations to defray the costs of defending the Watchtower Society's legal defense of their child endangerment policies. In the recent deposition two Watchtower lawyers were present that traveled over one thousand miles to be there. Who paid their travel expenses? In all these cases local top shelf law firms are hired to file motions and handle paperwork to defend the Watchtower's position. Who pays for these costs? In the spring of 2001 the Erica Rodriguez case was misfiled; it took about two weeks to make the corrections. The local premier law firm representing the Watchtower demanded $7,000 in compensation for the time it took for them to work around the misfiling. The judgment was denied in court leaving the Watchtower Society to pick up the cost. Where did the money come from to pay the $7,000 in legal fees? It is interesting to note that in many cases the Watchtower has asked local congregation to pick up the bill. Often when there is an injury from someone slipping and falling, the congregation is asked to pay the expenses from what ever resources they can generate. Will congregations named in abuse lawsuits be required to pay a portion of the expenses? In a newspaper article from the Sacramento Bee, JR Brown, the Public Relations spokesman for Jehovah's Witnesses, was quoted as saying they would not use dedicated funds in the legal defense of their policy on child abuse. If so where then do the funds come from?
In a recent lawsuit involving the death of a woman due to the negligence of a home office member that was on his way to church function, the Watchtower Society paid $1.55 million to the family of the victim. Was this considered "dedicated funds," was it World Wide Work money, or was the local congregation sent the bill? If the local congregation was to pay the bill would in not affect their ability to contribute to the World Wide Work? How many funds does the Watchtower have? Does this mean that brothers and sisters are sending in money with the request to use it only to defend child molesters and the elders who protected them in the courts? What would you call it, the "World Wide Child Molester Protection Fund?"
It is sad that the leadership if Jehovah's Witnesses have taken the stance of defending their child endangerment policy to the last man standing. Millions of dollars will be spent to defend their policy which puts all Jehovah's Witnesses squarely behind the child molester in defending his right to molest children. The policy says if a child cannot produce two "credible" eye witnesses when the molester denies the allegation, the molester is protected as an innocent man. This will give the typical pedophile additional children to molest before another child summons the courage to come forward as a second "witness", that is if the elders determine he or she is "credible." The "pedophile paradise" can only be found among Jehovah's Witnesses who implement policies and hire lawyers to the tune of millions of dollars in donated funds to defend their right to call children liars, a policy that silences the child as well as their family in the congregation from warning other families with the threat of excommunication for slandering an innocent pedophile.
If you are a Jehovah's Witness who is currently serving as an elder, you may want to think twice before you handle any case of child molestation in your congregation. In a recent abuse litigation involving an active female member who wrote the Governing Body (leadership) asking for a meeting to resolve matters through theocratic meetings, the sister was advised to sue the local elders and "dismiss Watchtower" from the lawsuit if she wanted to have a theocratic hearing. It seems there is a variance when it comes to "theocratic loyalty" from home office. When the courts establish the precedence that Watchtower Policy on abuse has hurt children you as an elder may find yourself giving a deposition to a bevy of attorneys who will hang on your every word. You may find yourself testifying in court before a jury of how you conducted your investigation of the crime of rape by explaining each step of your Legal Department required interrogation of a four year old child. You may find a summons coming to you in the mail to pay several hundred thousand dollars in judgments with whatever assets you can produce.
A common expression used by those in leadership positions in the Jehovah's Witness community when addressing child abuse is to "wait on Jehovah." This expression is used as a basis to paralyze elders and congregation members from taking any decisive action but instead waiting for God to provide the answer to remedy the problem. Often molesters have used this "waiting" period to molest numerous children while members remain in a holding pattern with supposed reliance upon Jehovah to resolve the problem. Each raped child in turn is presented with "waiting on Jehovah" while his or her friends wait for their turn to be raped. To do any less is deemed as a lack of faith in God and a poor example to fellow members. Could litigation be the answer to "waiting on Jehovah?" Has God empowered child abuse survivors to come forth to media and the courts to expose wicked and corrupt actions of men that claim divine direction from God? If the Watchtower is sued out of physical existence is this the action from Jehovah that members are waiting for?
As the divine depositions continue, elders who support and follow directives mandated by Watchtower Policy on abuse will face retribution as God delivers the answer to them they should have been following all along. That is doing what is morally and ethically right when it comes to protecting a child.
http://www.silentlambs.org/personal_experiences/Whopaysforchildabuse.htm

Venlig hilsen
Enoch
tilføjet af

Dulkis -U

Det er en offentlig hemmelighed.
Why did Jehovah's Witnesses pay the largest cash settlement in its history?
CultNews.com/March 5, 2003
The largest settlement ever paid in the history of Jehovah's Witnesses occurred this past October, but no news outlet has yet reported it.
The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, which is the umbrella organization over 6 million Witnesses worldwide, paid the estate of Frances Coughlin $1.55 million dollars rather than let a jury decide the wrongful death lawsuit.
Frances Coughlin's surviving family sued Jehovah's Witnesses, also known as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, in State of Connecticut Superior Court at Milford (CV-00-0072183 S).
The principle defendant was a "Bethelite," or full-time ministry worker, who drove recklessly in bad weather and killed Ms. Coughlin, a mother and grandmother, on October 8, 1998.
That Bethelite Jordon Johnson was traveling between "Bethel," which has housing for its full-time workers in Patison, New Jersey and Brooklyn, New York, to a Witness Kingdom Hall he was assigned to in Derby, Connecticut.
Johnson was found guilty of vehicular manslaughter, but only served 30 days in jail and was sentenced to two years probation. Subsequently, he and Jehovah's Witnesses faced a civil suit filed by Ms. Coughlin's surviving family for damages.
Why was the Witness organization willing to pay more than $1.5 million dollars?
Apparently because a much larger issue of "agency" was at stake.
Agency is the word used to express a relationship between a principal party and its agent, through which the principal party projects its power and/or advances some purpose. And a principal party may be held liable for the actions of its agent.
Jehovah's Witnesses contended that Jordan Johnson acted on his own and was not their agent at the time he caused the fatal car wreck.
But plaintiff's counsel, Joel Faxon of Koskoff, Koskoff & Bieder, claimed on his client's behalf that Jordan Johnson was serving as a Bethelite and agent of the organization at the time and advancing their purpose, therefore Jehovah's Witnesses was responsible for his actions.
Internal documents were obtained through the discovery process and testimony was given through depositions, which clarified and substantiated Faxon's view.
I was retained as an expert witness and consultant for this case by the plaintiff's counsel.
My role was to assist in the discovery process, provide research and generally help to form a basis for an understanding of how Jehovah's Witnesses employ, use and control Bethelites and others within their organization. Ultimately, I would have also testified as an expert in court.
That testimony would have included explaining in clear terms how the organizational dynamics, indoctrination and objectives of Jehovah's Witnesses impact individual members and more specifically full-time workers such as Bethelite Jordan Johnson.
But on the first day of trial Jehovah's Witnesses decided they didn't want a jury to decide this case and instead $1.55 million was paid to the plaintiff.
The organization that claims it is waiting for the ever-eminent "end of the world" decided to settle in a pragmatic move to protect its long-term interests and more than $1 billion dollars of accumulated assets.
Again, why would the Witnesses do this if they actually believed they had no meaningful liability?
Certainly the cost to complete the case in court would be far less than $1.55 million dollars. Why not let the jury decide?
But the seemingly shrewd Witnesses realized that there was just too much at stake and didn't want to risk a "guilty" verdict.
Currently the organization known as Jehovah's Witnesses faces a growing number of lawsuits filed by former members who feel the organization has hurt them.
The personal injuries were allegedly caused by elders and others acting in accordance with the organization's policies and doctrines, which include such matters as blood transfusions and sexual abuse.
Seemingly to protect its assets the Watchtower Society of Jehovah's Witnesses and its many Kingdom Hall congregations have in recent years created a myriad of corporate entities to apparently contain liability.
That is, each corporation is seemingly only responsible for its own specific actions and not the action of others. Again, this appears to be a rather pragmatic legal approach to protect the assets amassed by Jehovah's Witnesses over more than a century.
But what if Jehovah's Witnesses are nevertheless responsible or liable for the actions of its agents, which would include elders and others throughout its vast network of districts and Kingdom Halls?
Well, now you can see why the check was likely cut for $1.55 million in the Coughlin case.
Jehovah's Witnesses were apparently concerned about what legal precedent a jury might set that could ultimately affect other claims pending or potentially possible in the future against the organization.
Many people seem to think that Jehovah's Witnesses or the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is focused on the end of the world and a coming kingdom. At least that's the impression many have when its members come knocking at the door.
But through the Coughlin case a different view of the organization emerges, which looks more like a business protecting its worldly assets and focused on the bottom line.
To see more documents/articles regarding this group/organization/subject click here.

www.rickross.com/reference/jw/jw168.html
+
Who Pays For Child Abuse?
Spanish Translation
I just received another report of a deposition being taken regarding the current litigation involving Jehovah's Witnesses and their handling of child abuse within the congregation. It is interesting to note that when a lawsuit is filed on a matter of this nature all defendants are subject to paying financial restitution when the case is decided. This means the local elders, the local Kingdom Hall, the serving Circuit Overseer, District Overseer and of course the Watchtower Corporation itself will be liable for monetary damages. Will Watchtower Corporation pay? Of course, but also any assets of others involved in the lawsuit will also come under lien for satisfaction of any judgment. This could mean any elder who has been involved in a molestation case could lose his home, car and life savings as a result of supporting a policy he was mandated to follow as a representative of the Watchtower Society. You might compare it to when the military in years past prosecuted soldiers that killed women and children at the command of their superiors. Did this excuse their actions? Were the superiors the only ones prosecuted? No, all parties were held liable for doing what was morally and ethically wrong in hurting the innocent. In a similar way any person in a position of trust that has supported or authorized the implementation of Watchtower Policy could be held liable and subject to judgments from the courts.
If you as an elder were involved in a judicial hearing that concerned child abuse five, ten, or even twenty years ago you will have to look over your shoulder for the rest of your life in the event any of the victims decide they were hurt by your implementation of Watchtower Policy. Can this really happen? An example might be the tobacco companies and their fight to deny that cigarettes hurt people. When lawyers went to court and set the precedent that in fact this was the case then all any smoker had to do was align themselves with an attorney who was filing a lawsuit of this issue and collect a check. Court precedence is already established in the case of the Catholic Church that the first amendment does not give religion the right to hurt molested children by their policy. One attorney alone has won over 400 cases for victims based on this precedent. The bridge is simple to show that Jehovah's Witnesses by their policies and practice has hurt thousands of children. All that needs to be done is show this for one child, that is, just one case has to be won establishing that precedent for Jehovah's Witnesses. Once that simple step is taken it will open the way for thousands of abuse survivors to come forward and demand compensation to recover from the abuse wrought by representatives at the direction of the Watchtower Society.
Perhaps a question that needs to be asked is; does an elder deserve to lose everything he owns for his participation in destroying the life of a child? Should he be prosecuted and put in prison or pay fines if he is found to be in violation of state laws while he was acting at the direction of the Watchtower Legal Department? How would you answer?
Secondly relates to the use of World Wide Work Donations to defray the costs of defending the Watchtower Society's legal defense of their child endangerment policies. In the recent deposition two Watchtower lawyers were present that traveled over one thousand miles to be there. Who paid their travel expenses? In all these cases local top shelf law firms are hired to file motions and handle paperwork to defend the Watchtower's position. Who pays for these costs? In the spring of 2001 the Erica Rodriguez case was misfiled; it took about two weeks to make the corrections. The local premier law firm representing the Watchtower demanded $7,000 in compensation for the time it took for them to work around the misfiling. The judgment was denied in court leaving the Watchtower Society to pick up the cost. Where did the money come from to pay the $7,000 in legal fees? It is interesting to note that in many cases the Watchtower has asked local congregation to pick up the bill. Often when there is an injury from someone slipping and falling, the congregation is asked to pay the expenses from what ever resources they can generate. Will congregations named in abuse lawsuits be required to pay a portion of the expenses? In a newspaper article from the Sacramento Bee, JR Brown, the Public Relations spokesman for Jehovah's Witnesses, was quoted as saying they would not use dedicated funds in the legal defense of their policy on child abuse. If so where then do the funds come from?
In a recent lawsuit involving the death of a woman due to the negligence of a home office member that was on his way to church function, the Watchtower Society paid $1.55 million to the family of the victim. Was this considered "dedicated funds," was it World Wide Work money, or was the local congregation sent the bill? If the local congregation was to pay the bill would in not affect their ability to contribute to the World Wide Work? How many funds does the Watchtower have? Does this mean that brothers and sisters are sending in money with the request to use it only to defend child molesters and the elders who protected them in the courts? What would you call it, the "World Wide Child Molester Protection Fund?"
It is sad that the leadership if Jehovah's Witnesses have taken the stance of defending their child endangerment policy to the last man standing. Millions of dollars will be spent to defend their policy which puts all Jehovah's Witnesses squarely behind the child molester in defending his right to molest children. The policy says if a child cannot produce two "credible" eye witnesses when the molester denies the allegation, the molester is protected as an innocent man. This will give the typical pedophile additional children to molest before another child summons the courage to come forward as a second "witness", that is if the elders determine he or she is "credible." The "pedophile paradise" can only be found among Jehovah's Witnesses who implement policies and hire lawyers to the tune of millions of dollars in donated funds to defend their right to call children liars, a policy that silences the child as well as their family in the congregation from warning other families with the threat of excommunication for slandering an innocent pedophile.
If you are a Jehovah's Witness who is currently serving as an elder, you may want to think twice before you handle any case of child molestation in your congregation. In a recent abuse litigation involving an active female member who wrote the Governing Body (leadership) asking for a meeting to resolve matters through theocratic meetings, the sister was advised to sue the local elders and "dismiss Watchtower" from the lawsuit if she wanted to have a theocratic hearing. It seems there is a variance when it comes to "theocratic loyalty" from home office. When the courts establish the precedence that Watchtower Policy on abuse has hurt children you as an elder may find yourself giving a deposition to a bevy of attorneys who will hang on your every word. You may find yourself testifying in court before a jury of how you conducted your investigation of the crime of rape by explaining each step of your Legal Department required interrogation of a four year old child. You may find a summons coming to you in the mail to pay several hundred thousand dollars in judgments with whatever assets you can produce.
A common expression used by those in leadership positions in the Jehovah's Witness community when addressing child abuse is to "wait on Jehovah." This expression is used as a basis to paralyze elders and congregation members from taking any decisive action but instead waiting for God to provide the answer to remedy the problem. Often molesters have used this "waiting" period to molest numerous children while members remain in a holding pattern with supposed reliance upon Jehovah to resolve the problem. Each raped child in turn is presented with "waiting on Jehovah" while his or her friends wait for their turn to be raped. To do any less is deemed as a lack of faith in God and a poor example to fellow members. Could litigation be the answer to "waiting on Jehovah?" Has God empowered child abuse survivors to come forth to media and the courts to expose wicked and corrupt actions of men that claim divine direction from God? If the Watchtower is sued out of physical existence is this the action from Jehovah that members are waiting for?
As the divine depositions continue, elders who support and follow directives mandated by Watchtower Policy on abuse will face retribution as God delivers the answer to them they should have been following all along. That is doing what is morally and ethically right when it comes to protecting a child.
http://www.silentlambs.org/personal_experiences/Whopaysforchildabuse.htm

Venlig hilsen
Enoch
tilføjet af

Tusind tak

Hej enoch
Tak for den delvise dokumentation- jeg vil prøve at sætte mig lidt mere ind i det:-)
SuperDebat.dk er det tidligere debatforum på SOL.dk, som nu er skilt ud separat.