8tilføjet af

Ånd/energi eller manipulation?

Jeg faldt ved et tilfælde over dette videoklip på Youtube, hvor en 9. DAN karate instruktør demonstrerer sin færdigheder i 'No Touch Knockout'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z0_n7tGnK0
Et stykke inde i videoen - efter en introduktion af martial art mesteren George Dillman vises eksempler på, hvordan han uden nogen form for fysisk kontakt kan 'knock out' en person.
Det som er interessant ved der man ser er, at den måde som "modstanderen" eller udøveren reagerer på disse "slag" i sin form er sammenlignlige med det man kan iagttage, fx i karismatiske kristne kirke, når de vælter i ånden, fx når en prædikant uden at røre tilhøreren får denne til at falde sammen eller vælte bag over.
(Link til eksempel med Benny Hinn)
Hvis jeg sammenligner martial art mesteren George Dillman's forklaring (ca 5:45 inde i videoen) på hvorfor, det ikke virker på en test person og nogle af de forklaringer jeg har hørte blandt karismatiske kristne, hvorfor nogle ikke falder (fx at de ikke af et åbent hjerte har taget imod Jesus), er det vanskeligt at se nogen substantiel forskel på det der kan ses i de to forskellige sammenhænge.
Personligt kan jeg ikke tage disse fænomener alvorligt, ser dem som udtryk for manipulation, suggestion og massesuggestion.
/sbrh
tilføjet af

Skaberi

Personligt kan jeg ikke tage disse fænomener alvorligt, ser dem som udtryk for manipulation, suggestion og massesuggestion.

At de skaber sig har vi andre vidst hele tiden.
tilføjet af

Ånd/energi eller manipulation?

Ja - det er svært at se forskel..
Jeg fandt lige noget her :
http://www.gotquestions.org/Dansk/falde-Anden.html
Med mindre det drejer sig om en dæmonuddrivelse, hvor folk kan ligge og kæmpe på gulvet, så ved jeg heller ikke, hvad det skal gøre godt for, jeg er aldrig faldet under forbøn, og det er ikke almindeligt - de steder jeg har besøgt.
Men jeg har været til et møde med Benny Hinn i Forum, og det var ellers en god oplevelse, med et stort kor - skøn sang og musik [f]

Og gratis adgang.

Men dette skubberi har jeg ingen forklaring på..
P.S.
Jeg kan se mit link ikke bliver klikbart.. det sker gerne, når der lægges et anderlees link i trådstart.. f.eks.
(Link til eksempel med Benny Hinn)
Men hvis man sætter tråden på FLAD, så virker det 🙂
tilføjet af

Svindel og humbug

Det er såmænd bare svindel og humbug det hele.
tilføjet af

Svindel og humbug

Det er såmænd bare svindel og humbug det hele.

Naturligvis er det svindel. Kun folk der er tilbagestående nærmest lidt retarderede, grænseløst naive og nogen godtroende fjolser kan narres til at tro fupnummeret.
Her er noget om hvad der skrives om denne Benny Hinn.

ttp://www.blog.joelx.com/pastor-benny-hinn-fraud-scam-divorce/4863/
Benny Hinn's Gulfstream IV Jet
Televangelist pastor Benny Hinn is a fraud, scam, divorcee, and cheat. Benny Hinn preys on weak-minded people to convince them he can use “faith-healing” to cure their illnesses so that they donate over $100,000,000 per year to support his extraordinarily lavish lifestyle. Hinn flies around in a Gulfstream G4SP valued at $36,000,000 and costing $600,000 more per year to operate and maintain. He lives in a lavish multimillion dollar house in a very wealthy area of Dana Point (a beachfront property in Orange County). Benny Hinn misuses money given to him by unsuspecting people, usually elderly, who have been suckered into his spiel. Benny Hinn uses only a portion of the funds that he receives to further Christian goals- instead he funnels much of the money to himself, unrelated political causes, and his friends and relatives.
Se endelig denne video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riZ812-tPwE
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Svindel og humbug

[quote="Bjarne2411" post=2795806]Det er såmænd bare svindel og humbug det hele.[/quote]
Naturligvis er det svindel. Kun folk der er tilbagestående nærmest lidt retarderede, grænseløst naive og nogen godtroende fjolser kan narres til at tro fupnummeret.
Her er noget om hvad der skrives om denne Benny Hinn.

ttp://www.blog.joelx.com/pastor-benny-hinn-fraud-scam-divorce/4863/
Benny Hinn's Gulfstream IV Jet
Televangelist pastor Benny Hinn is a fraud, scam, divorcee, and cheat. Benny Hinn preys on weak-minded people to convince them he can use “faith-healing” to cure their illnesses so that they donate over $100,000,000 per year to support his extraordinarily lavish lifestyle. Hinn flies around in a Gulfstream G4SP valued at $36,000,000 and costing $600,000 more per year to operate and maintain. He lives in a lavish multimillion dollar house in a very wealthy area of Dana Point (a beachfront property in Orange County). Benny Hinn misuses money given to him by unsuspecting people, usually elderly, who have been suckered into his spiel. Benny Hinn uses only a portion of the funds that he receives to further Christian goals- instead he funnels much of the money to himself, unrelated political causes, and his friends and relatives.
Se endelig denne video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riZ812-tPwE

Det må jeg nok sige den mand er da virkelig en professionel svindler.
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Ja men han har jo noget tilfælles med ...

Charles Tage Russell [(:]

SVINDEL :
http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Taze_Russell
Charles Taze Russells mirakelhvede

Omkring 1910 begyndte Charles Taze Russell at videresælge en "mirakelhvede" til stærkt forhøjet pris i forhold til almindelig hvede.
Hveden blev oprindeligt solgt af den påståede opdager K. B. Stoner. Russell og Stoner påstod begge, at hveden havde en særlig kraft.
Den amerikanske regering foretog en undersøgelse af hveden, som påviste, at hveden var af dårlig kvalitet.
Fra 1911 til 1913 rettede avisen The Brooklyn Daily Eagle kritik mod Russells salg af mirakelhvede og påpegede svindlen, og påstod at Russell blot var ude på at tjene penge.
Russell lagde sag an mod avisen. Inden retssagen udtalte den, at den ved at vinde retssagen kunne bevise, at Russell og hans sekt ikke var andet end en pengemaskine. Avisen vandt retssagen over Russell. De efterfølgende fortegnelser viste, at pengene ikke gik til Russell selv, men til missionsarbejde inden for Vagttårnsselskabet.
Citat slut
SKILSMISSE

Q. Tell us what you saw and what he said and what was done.
A. One evening I spent the evening downstairs, and our library and our bedroom were next to each other upstairs on the second flour, and I spent the evening downstairs reading, and I went upstairs about ten o’clock to my room, and I supposed that he was either in the library or had retired, and when I went up there I found that he was in neither place, and I stepped out in the hall, and I found that he was in his night robe, sitting beside Miss Ball’s bed and she was in bed. On other occasions I found him going in there and I found she called him in and said she wasn’t well and wanted him in, and I objected to this, and I said that it was highly improper, and I said "We have people about the house, and what kind of a name will be attached to this house if you do that kind of thing?" and he got angry.
Q. You state that you found him doing this at other times. How often after that?
A. I found him a number of times, I don’t remember how often.
Q. In her room?
CT Russell accusation
A. Yes, sir. And I found him in the servants girl’s room as well, and I found him locked in the servant girl’s room.
Q. Did he make any explanation why he was in the girl’s room?
A. No, he did not; he just got angry.
Q. What did you say to him about this conduct, and what did he say?
A. I said to him, "We have a great work on our hands," and I said, "in this work you and I have to walk very circumspectly before the world, and if you are going to do things like this, what will happen? Suppose you are all right, don’t you suppose people will talk about things like this?" and I said, "I am not satisfied with it," and he said he wasn’t going to be ruled by me. But I felt distressed about that.
Q. What did Rose do at the Watch Tower?
A. She attended to the correspondence.
Q. Where was her desk with reference to the desk of Mr. Russell in the Watch Tower Society?
A. It wasn’t near his; it was in the office.
Q. When would he go to the Watch Tower in the morning?
A. I don’t remember; he generally went down alone.
Q. Who would return with him?
CT Russell response
A. She came with him in the evenings, and they came home about eleven o’clock and the young men that were in the office - she was the only girl, and the young men would go home, and he wouldn’t allow her to go home with them, and she must wait and always go with him.

Objected to.
Charles T Russell accusation
Q. I want the mere fact. Did this girl Rose go home with your husband?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And the young men came home ahead of them?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. State to the Court and jury what talk, if any, you had with this girl Rose, in regard to her relations with your husband, which you communicated to your husband.

Objected to.
By the Court: The objection is sustained unless you show what you propose to prove.
By Mr. Porter: We propose to prove by the witness upon the stand that the plaintiff after observing the conduct as stated by her, of her husband with Rose Ball, she went to the girl and secured from her statement that Mr. Russell at various times embrased and kissed her; that he called her his little wife and jelly-fish, and told that a man’s heart was so big he could love a dozen women, but a woman’s heart was so small she could only love properly one man: that after receiving this statement from Rose Ball, the plaintiff told her husband that, and he admitted that is was true.
CT Russell accusation
Objected to as incompetent and irrelevant, and especially because it gives a conversation which, if it occurred would not tend in the slightest degree to prove indignities to the person of Mrs. Russell.
Objection overruled and bill sealed for defendant.
http://www.pastor-russell.com/misc/bde.html

Retssagen

Q. Tell us what you saw and what he said and what was done.
A. One evening I spent the evening downstairs, and our library and our bedroom were next to each other upstairs on the second flour, and I spent the evening downstairs reading, and I went upstairs about ten o’clock to my room, and I supposed that he was either in the library or had retired, and when I went up there I found that he was in neither place, and I stepped out in the hall, and I found that he was in his night robe, sitting beside Miss Ball’s bed and she was in bed. On other occasions I found him going in there and I found she called him in and said she wasn’t well and wanted him in, and I objected to this, and I said that it was highly improper, and I said "We have people about the house, and what kind of a name will be attached to this house if you do that kind of thing?" and he got angry.
Q. You state that you found him doing this at other times. How often after that?
A. I found him a number of times, I don’t remember how often.
Q. In her room?
CT Russell accusation
A. Yes, sir. And I found him in the servants girl’s room as well, and I found him locked in the servant girl’s room.
Q. Did he make any explanation why he was in the girl’s room?
A. No, he did not; he just got angry.
Q. What did you say to him about this conduct, and what did he say?
A. I said to him, "We have a great work on our hands," and I said, "in this work you and I have to walk very circumspectly before the world, and if you are going to do things like this, what will happen? Suppose you are all right, don’t you suppose people will talk about things like this?" and I said, "I am not satisfied with it," and he said he wasn’t going to be ruled by me. But I felt distressed about that.
Q. What did Rose do at the Watch Tower?
A. She attended to the correspondence.
Q. Where was her desk with reference to the desk of Mr. Russell in the Watch Tower Society?
A. It wasn’t near his; it was in the office.
Q. When would he go to the Watch Tower in the morning?
A. I don’t remember; he generally went down alone.
Q. Who would return with him?
CT Russell response
A. She came with him in the evenings, and they came home about eleven o’clock and the young men that were in the office - she was the only girl, and the young men would go home, and he wouldn’t allow her to go home with them, and she must wait and always go with him.

Objected to.
Charles T Russell accusation
Q. I want the mere fact. Did this girl Rose go home with your husband?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And the young men came home ahead of them?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. State to the Court and jury what talk, if any, you had with this girl Rose, in regard to her relations with your husband, which you communicated to your husband.

Objected to.
By the Court: The objection is sustained unless you show what you propose to prove.
By Mr. Porter: We propose to prove by the witness upon the stand that the plaintiff after observing the conduct as stated by her, of her husband with Rose Ball, she went to the girl and secured from her statement that Mr. Russell at various times embrased and kissed her; that he called her his little wife and jelly-fish, and told that a man’s heart was so big he could love a dozen women, but a woman’s heart was so small she could only love properly one man: that after receiving this statement from Rose Ball, the plaintiff told her husband that, and he admitted that is was true.
CT Russell accusation
Objected to as incompetent and irrelevant, and especially because it gives a conversation which, if it occurred would not tend in the slightest degree to prove indignities to the person of Mrs. Russell.
Objection overruled and bill sealed for defendant.
Citat slut
Jeg vil dog ikke kalde Benny Hinn for en svindler, folk betaler frivilligt for, at han kan rejse verden rundt og holde møder.
Og han har giftet sig med sin eks.kone igen.
Da jeg var i Forum var der gratis adgang for alle - og Forum var fyldt op til sidste plads !
Det var rigtig god sang / musik, modsat det jeg har set fra vagttårnet, på youtube [:X]
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Svindel og humbug

Er dette også svindel ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z0_n7tGnK0
det glemte I at kommentere.. 😕
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Svindel og humbug

Kun folk der er tilbagestående nærmest lidt retarderede, grænseløst naive og nogen godtroende fjolser kan narres til at tro fupnummeret.

Når jeg læser en kommentar som denne, kommer jeg til at tænke på det afrikanske ordsprog: »Når du taler om din næste, fortæller du, hvem du er.«
/sbrh
SuperDebat.dk er det tidligere debatforum på SOL.dk, som nu er skilt ud separat.