Hvem er "Den Tro og Kloge Tjener"?

Ærede debattører og gode borgere.
Hvem er den Tro og Kloge Tjener?
Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings. Matthew 24:45-47 (New World Translation of the Holy Scripture 1984 (NWT))
Svar:
1) From Pentecost, A.D. 33, up to this very present hour this (”feeding”) has been lovingly and carefully performed. Yes, and these “domestics” have been fed on progressive spiritual food that keeps them abreast of the “bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established.”
WT 1960 July 15 p. 435.
2) Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that this parable pertains to the one true congregation of Jesus Christ’s anointed followers. Beginning with Pentecost, 33 C.E., and continuing through the 19 centuries since then, this slavelike congregation has been feeding its members spiritually, doing so faithfully and discreetly.
(WT 1981 March 1, p. 24)
Er du enig?
Venlig hilsen
Ven af Sandheden.

Den trofaste og kloge træl har udgivet tonsvis af bibelsk læsestof siden Charles Taze Russels dage i 1880'erne.

Hej Anonym.

” ……….beginning with Pentecost, 33 C.E., and continuing through the 19 centuries …”.
Citat slut fra Vagttårnet.
Kommentar:
Nu var det sådan ikke lige siden (dengang 1880erne) jeg tænkte på. Jeg tænkte snarere, som Vagttårnet fortæller, at fra 33 C.E. er jo hvad som er nævnt i Vagttårnet og det er jo en forholdsvis meget lang tidsperiode og jeg vil derfor spørge dig om hvilken litteratur Charles Taze Russell udgav dengang (siden det nu er det første der falder dig ind)?
Det andet spørgsmål jeg så vil stille dig er, at den litteratur du henviser til Charles Taze Russell, vil du bekende den; altså tror du på den ”føde”?
Venlig hilsen
Ven af Sandheden.

http://debat.sol.dk/show.fcgi?category=6&conference=217&posting=1809758#1809758

Hej Anonym,
Jeg ville ønske du ville vælge dig et "debatnavn". Du behøver ikke, at aktivere din profil, men du får en bedre tilbagemelding.
Jeg glæder mig da, at du er enig med mig i mine synspunkter. Tak fordi du henviste til det indlæg jeg skrev.
og så siger jeg, ja, hvorfor ikke? Jehovas Vidners problem i dag er, at de har forkastet Pyramideteologiens ophavsmand nemlig Charles Taze Russell.
Hvorfor måtte han dog ikke ha` de synspunkter han havde? Jeg har ikke mødt andre siden hen i Organisationen (bøger og blade) der har været bedre og så kan man jo bedre forholde sig til at debattere disse.
Har du ellers lyst til at fortælle lidt om sit syn på Jesus som "ærkeenglen Michael"?
Det kunne være interessant om vi kunne komme til en sondring.
Venlig hilsen
Ven af Sandheden.

"Den Tro og Kloge Tjener".
Han er derimod "his master", ifølge det skriftsted du har anvendt.
Citat:
Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings. Matthew 24:45-47 (New World Translation of the Holy Scripture 1984 (NWT))

Hej, Anonym,
Ok, du mener ikke Jesus = ”den tro og kloge træl”, fordi her er tale om én der står over ”den tro og kloge træl”. I den forbindelse er det interessant den udtalelse Jesus fremførte:
”Min ”mad” er at gøre ”hans” vilje, som sendte mig”. Så som jeg læser det, ”gav én Jesus mad” eller;
”min ”mad” (den ”mad” jeg har) Jesus kunne give var ”en adfærd i overensstemmelse med Guds vilje”; til efterfølgelse med Guds velsignelse.
Så ”maden” er sådan set ”et liv i overensstemmelse med Guds vilje”. Eller, Jesu liv og gerning (korsfæstelsen); det offer Jesus gav, var ”mad i rette tid” fordi Jesus samtidig formanede sine disciple og efterfølgere til at ”spise hans kød” og ”drikke hans blod” (så ofte som I gør det).
Det vil så sige, at ”maden” er Jesu offer og den modtager vi i Nadveren.
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Når det er sagt, så blev Charles Taze Russell anerkendt, som ”trællen” og efterfølgende ”det styrende råd” der udgiver bladene og bøgerne, skriver dem; bedømt at være ”trællen”.
Altså siden Charles Taze Russell blev bøgerne og bladene og de der skrev disse sandheden bedømt ”trællen” / og ”føden”.
Jehovah’s Witnesses today deny this, but Watchtower literature proves it.
The Watchtower book ”The Harp of God ” (published in the early 1920s) states:
“Without a doubt Pastor Russell filled the office...and was therefore that wise and faithful servant, ministering to the household of faith meat in due season.
” The Watchtower magazine (1920) likewise said:
“No one in present truth for a moment doubts that brother Russell filled the office of the ‘Faithful and Wise Servant.’”
Indeed, “the Society by overwhelming majority vote expressed its will in substance thus:
Brother Russell filled the office of ‘that Servant.’”
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The Watchtower Society Changes Its Story:

By 1927 (slightly over a decade after Russell’s death), The Watchtower magazine was singing to a different tune. No longer was Pastor Russell considered the faithful and discreet slave. Following Russell’s death in 1916, there was a split
in the organization that involved the new president, Joseph F. Rutherford.
Rutherford took control of the Watchtower organization while members loyal to Russell broke away. Those who broke away—the “Russellites”—have continued to the present day to view Russell as God’s special servant. But the Watchtower organization under Rutherford alleged that Russell never made this claim for himself.
Rather, Rutherford said, Christ’s anointed followers in the Society—viewed as a group or an organization—is God’s collective chosen instrument.
Along these lines, the February 15, 1927 issue of The Watchtower magazine proclaimed that the phrase “faithful and discreet slave” does not apply to a single person.
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Nogen giver denne kommentar til dem der opponere (navn: natesgirlks) :
”C.T. Russell founded the religion I belong to. He did not found the Russellites. He had no objection to their being a new president after his death. He would be proud that with the backing of Jehovah's Holy Spirit the little group of Bible Students he associated with became a worldwide organization”.
Venlig hilsen
Ven af Sandheden.

Uden tvivl gjorde C. T. Russel Guds vilje ved at give de bibelske sandheder som God lod ham forstå videre til andre.

Hej Anonym,
Tak for dit svar. Det er jeg sådan set godt tilfreds med.
Dersom vi skal forblive i den "retning" at du mener, at Charles Taze Russell " ... gav de bibelske sandheder som Gud lod ham forstå, videre til andre", kan vi så drage den konklusion, at det samme gjaldt J.F.Rutherford, N.H.Knorr og de efterfølgende?
og, at ”det styrende råd” pr. March 2009 the Governing Body profile is as follows.
The numbers next to the names are their year born and year of entry to the Governing Body, followed by current age and years of service on the Governing Body:
Name, Year Born, GB entry, Age, Years on GB

Theodore Jaracz    1925   1974   84 35
   
John E. Barr    1913   1977   96 32
Gerrit Lösch    1941   1994 68 15
Samuel F. Herd    1935    1999    74 10
M. Stephen Lett    1949    1999    60 10

Guy H. Pierce    1934    1999    75 10

David H. Splane    1944    1999    65 10

Geoffrey Jackson    1955    2005 54 4
Anthony Morris    1950    2005    59 4

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følgende er så afgået ved døden, men startede deres ”karriere” det første årstal i parentesen:
Carey W. Barber (1977-2007)
William Lloyd Barry (1974-1999)
John C. Booth (1974-1996)
Charles J. Fekel (1974-1977)
Frederick William Franz (1971-1992) — 4th President of Watchtower Society
George D. Gangas (1971-1994)
John O. Groh (1965-1975)
Milton George Henschel (1947-2003) — 5th President of Watchtower Society
William K. Jackson (1971-1981)
Karl F. Klein (1974-2001)
Nathan Homer Knorr (1942-1977) — 3rd President of Watchtower Society
Martin Pötzinger (1977-1988)
Albert D. Schroeder (1974-2006)
Grant Suiter (1971-1983)
Thomas J. Sullivan (1971-1973)
Lyman Alexander Swingle (1971-2001)
Daniel Sydlik (1974-2006)
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fjernet, udstødt eller gået af sig selv:

Resigned / Removed (years active)
Ewart Chitty (1974-1979)
Raymond Franz (1971-1980)
Leo K. Greenlees (1971-1984)
Foto:
http://www.freeminds.org/organization/governing-body/photos-of-the-governing-body.html
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Years later in 1989 I finally read the book Crisis of Conscience, and discovered that the world headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses has no interest in the Anointed class worldwide.
The Society does not consult with the so-called Faithful & Discreet Slave, and in fact, they do not even track who these Anointed are beyond taking a census once a year resulting from the memorial celebration!
[Ref. the book, The Nations Shall Know that I am Jehovah, Copyright 1971, Watchtower, Chapter 4, "Commissioned to Speak in the Divine Name"]
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Then, in 2001, when I attended BRCI in Waterloo, Canada - SOMETHING NEW was revealed:
One evening, several of us decided to sit in the hotel lounge and have a few drinks. Four of the eight of us were former Bethelites (I have never been a Bethelite).
One of the former Bethelite who held a significant position in New York was talking about a close relationship he had with a Governing Body member. (I happen to have a couple of tapes of this GB member the former Bethelite mentioned. They were talks he gave on prayer.)
If only these GB men could publish what they really know and believe. If only they could follow through with the material they used to relate in the 'special' talks they would give before the big 'apostate' crunch of the 1980s to present - maybe the JWs might have a nifty cool little religion. Anyway ...
On one of many occasions, this former Bethelite was having a private discussion with this GB member.
They discussed the Bible at times as part of their normal dialogue. The GB member then made the comment that utterly floored the Bethelite; and my hearing it in 2001, though I had been an ex-JW for 8 years at the time - IT FLOORED me.
What did this GB member say that was so shocking? This is how it was related to me:
> "The Society has 'IT' all wrong, and everything we teach needs to be junked into the trash." The GB member went on to say, "The Society needs to start all over from the beginning, at Genesis 1:1 and completely reinvent the religion."<
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The Governing Body member whom I speak of is still one of the current ten members.
The other GB member is one of the three that proposed shifting the last generation to 1957 from 1914 that Ray Franz mentions, and is also still on the Governing Body. [See, Crisis of Conscience, p. 261-263] ...
So, we currently have at least two members of the Governing Body who were willing to make very serious changes to a core doctrine, one in the case of Albert Schroeder the only remaining member of the committee of three that proposed the serious date change ... and the other member I speak of who feels that the "Society has is all wrong" and wants to start over at Genesis 1:1.
How can these Governing Body members treat former Jehovah's Witnesses as evil apostates, when they themselves do not necessarily accept their own religion?
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Kommentar:
Jeg vil se frem til, at debattere disse oplysninger med dig og hvordan du ser på 1) at ”Det styrende råd” ikke har møder eller konsultere ”resten af de 144.000 rundt om i verden?
2) at ”man” mindst 2 medlemmer af ”Det styrende råd” mener, at ”man” burde starte helt forfra?
Venlig hilsen
Ven af Sandheden.

Jesus sagde:
"Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?" (Matthew 24:45)
Det er altså Jesus der udpeger trællen.
Videre sagde Jesus:
"Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings." (Matthew 24:46-47)
Hvis du vil vide hvem trællen er, skal du altså finde ud af hvem der viderefører dette arbejde i dag.

Hej Anonym
Tak for dit svar. Jeg værdsætter dit svar, men du overser mit indlæg. Grunden til jeg har nævnet disse ting for dig er, at dersom ”trællen” skal give ”føde” (som jeg har forkaret er fra Gud), så skal det også afspejle Guds vilje.
(”….min mad (føde) er at gøre ”hans” vilje) altså Guds vilje.
Det vil sige, at dersom det både skal være ”Guds vilje” og ”føde fra Gud” er det nødvendigt, at være i overensstemmelse med den virkelighed Jesus fremsagde, som du selv er ind på; det er Jesus der uddeler føden og det er mennesker der medvirker til dette.
Vil man påstå, at man er udpeget af Jesus er det altså ikke lige meget hvad man siger. Det Evangelium man derfor prædiker skal være det samme som Jesus bragte og som Apostlene videreførte.
Den store Grundpille i dette foretagende er ikke menneskene, men Helligånden og har man ikke Helligånden, er Evangeliet et falsk evangelium.
Hvordan kan man så kende et falsk evangelium fra Jesu Evanglium, selv om det er samme udgangspunkt; nemlig Jesu ord nedskrevet i Bibelen?
Det kan man ved først og fremmest at fremholde Jesu Ord og det kan så ikke nytte noget, at man både forandre ”udgangspunktet” og efterfølgende Evangeliet for ikke at tale om uinspirerede profetier.
Så jeg mener, at med det materiale jeg har sendt til dig må du også kunne drage en konklusion, at fremholder man et Evangelium der klart er forskelligt fra Jesu Ord, nytter det ikke noget at man siger Herre, Herre.
Venlig hilsen
Ven af Sandheden.